The Engineering Leadership Podcast · Episode 131

Redefining success and incorporating relational healing practices into eng leadership & product development

with Tammarrian Rogers

May 23, 2023
In this episode, we redefine what successful, productive engineering looks like with Tammarrian Rogers. As the former Inclusive Engineering Director @ Snap, Tammarrian shares her perspective on global relational healing and what pulled her away from her traditional eng leadership role to explore this topic further. We cover the importance of incorporating relational healing practices into eng leadership & product development, the importance of the “healing profit,” how technology can help manifest healing opportunities for users, and how to align eng teams on embracing relational healing as a practice. We also cover how individual eng leaders can build awareness around internal self-talk – critical & positive – and explore self-love / reflection practices daily.
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Tammarrian (@tammarrian) has enjoyed acquiring over 30 years of engineering leadership experience in both hardware and software at General Motors, Apple, Microsoft and Snap.  She has had the opportunity to lead cross-functional teams with a focus on inclusive product engineering, quality assurance, release management and product localization and globalization.  She has also served on community non-profit and for-profit organizations including Ada Developers Academy, NordVPN, Northwest Tech Equity Initiative (NWTEI) and OPTYVA, a social purpose organization with a business sustainability focus.

In November 2021, Tammarrian left her position as Snap’s first Inclusive Engineering Director to redirect her energy to developing methodologies that promote and facilitate global relational healing; healing that will lead to a sustainable, healthy planet and future for us humans.  Ultimately, her goal is to systematically embed these successful methodologies into emerging and evolving technologies.

As a solo nomad today, Tammarrian is enjoying meeting and connecting with people and land around our world. You’ll likely find her on an urban or nature hike, in some body of water or giving much love to a stranger’s dog.

"We really have to be aware of what is the impact of the product that we're building on our communities beyond the typical metrics that we use to say that we're being successful. So for example, we talk a lot about success being financial, right? It's a profit. How are we profiting? And that also hinges upon everything from our engagement metrics, the visits, the retention, the click-through rate. Whatever your product is, what is it that you're measuring to say that you're building and retaining a community of people and you're growing your business? We're all familiar with that, and I think what I'm inviting us to do as engineering leaders across our industry is to shift the currency of success and to bring in an entirely different currency.”

- Tammarrian Rogers   

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ELC Annual is our flagship conference for engineering leaders. You’ll learn from experts in engineering and leadership, gain mentorship and support from like-minded professionals, expand your perspectives, build relationships across the tech industry, and leave with practical prove strategies.

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  • Tammarrian’s transition from eng leadership @ Snap (2:45)
  • Redefining what a productive day means & focusing on global relational healing (5:09)
  • How Tammarrian felt pulled to move away from traditional eng leadership (6:31)
  • Exploring what global relationship healing means (10:03)
  • Strategies for building awareness around critical internal talk (12:16)
  • Frameworks for practicing self-love (13:47)
  • Tammarrian’s strategies for diverting outward distractions & focusing inward (15:32)
  • Using your physical space to impact your perspective & vice versa (18:15)
  • Encouraging eng leaders to consider the “healing profit” (20:19)
  • Technology / products that manifest healing opportunities (23:12)
  • An example of how Snap’s technology helped users feel seen (25:19)
  • Make sure your team is aligned on if healing is a value (28:06)
  • Tammarrian’s approach to dissonance between perceived & actual lived-out values (31:25)
  • Active ways someone can transition from surviving mode to thriving mode (35:32)
  • The No. 1 practice to embody the thriving mindset (38:20)
  • Rapid fire questions (39:49)


  • Profit Without Oppression - Profit Without Oppression unapologetically identifies the systems, institutions, and policies that privilege the few while excluding and harming the many. This book charts an inclusionary strategic path forward that seeks to develop an economic ethos and series of business models that are supremacy, coercion, discrimination, and exploitation free.
  • The Silent Patient - A shocking psychological thriller of a woman’s act of violence against her husband—and of the therapist obsessed with uncovering her motive.
  • Humankind: A Hopeful History - International bestseller Rutger Bregman provides new perspective on the past 200,000 years of human history, setting out to prove that we are hardwired for kindness, geared toward cooperation rather than competition, and more inclined to trust rather than distrust one another.

This episode wouldn’t have been possible without the help of our incredible production team:

Patrick Gallagher - Producer & Co-Host

Jerry Li - Co-Host

Noah Olberding - Associate Producer, Audio & Video Editor

Dan Overheim - Audio Engineer, Dan’s also an avid 3D printer -

Ellie Coggins Angus - Copywriter, Check out her other work at

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